Saturday, October 3, 2020

My 3D printed CETME and HK G3 bending jig

Update: If you're here because you bought a 3D printed jig on Gunbroker, that jig was printed and sold without the seller asking permission to use my design.

So that...actually..worked?  I'm always a little surprised when my harebrained schemes actually work the way they're supposed to, and my 3D printed CETME folding jig worked nearly perfectly.  There are going to be a lot of pictures in this post...

Here are the main pieces of the jig.   As I said in my last post, the mandrel portion is made from more pieces than it needs to be because I changed my mind halfway through printing and didn't want to reprint everything, so I just printed the extra bits and glued them on.  The lower jig has clearance cutouts that should work for CETME and G3 flats, although I goofed on the ejection port location and had to do some grinding on the jig.  I'll update the files for that before I post them.  Each part has two 1/2" hardwood dowels connecting and aligning the pieces, and depending on your printer's tolerances after printing you will probably have to chase the holes with a 1/2" drill bit.  Based on a user review, I recommend not gluing things together so that you can adjust the length of the jig in case the alignment holes in your flat are off.  The holes on the ends of the jig are sized for 1/4" bolts, through the mandrel and threaded into the lower jig.

It's printed in eSun PLA+, standing on end, .16 layer height, 8 walls, 15% Gyroid infill, .45mm line width(with .4 nozzle), 107% wall flow and 120% infill flow to "overstuff" the layers for better layer adhesion, a higher than normal 220°C and only 70% cooling fan, again for better layer adhesion.  These are the basic setting for all my "strong" parts(the only difference with my printed receivers is that I use 99% infill there).  Using these setting I get significantly stronger prints than the "standard" print settings, at the cost of a not quite as smooth surface finish.  With these settings, if my prints fail, they crack through the part, or just kind of mush over, I do NOT get any layer separation.  People tend to think of PLA as a weak and brittle filament, but the reality is that it has nearly twice the tensile strength of ABS and PETG, and more compression strength than either of the others.  It's biggest drawback is that because it is so rigid, it tends to crack in situations where ABS or PETG would just flex.

There are four more pieces to the jig not pictured above.  The top half of the mandrel portion of the jig is undersized so that the sheetmetal has room to bend.  But, the whole point of this jig is to keep the flat straight as it bends, so there are some thin filler pieces to fill the gap between the mandrel and the sheetmetal in the later stages of the bending process.  Here's where they fit on the mandrel:

Here's how the mandrel fits the sheetmetal without and with the fillers:

Ok, now the real fun starts.  I used a short bar of aluminum to help spread the load across the top mandrel.  A longer bar would have worked better, but this is what I had.

I pressed a little, then moved the bar and pressed some more.  A little bit on this side...

A little bit on that side...


I went back and forth about 10 times, trying to keep things even.  I actually did very little pressing right in the middle, most of it was at the ends.  Once I got most of the way there, about what you see in the pic above, I put the filler pieces into the jig.  It was a tight fit and I had to (very)carefully tap them in with a hammer. 

With the spacers in, it was back to the press for more back and forth.  Once the magwell starts to close up, you've got to start getting creative with your press tools.  "Whatever is closest and will fit" is the method of tool selection that generally I use.  You want to try to keep as much surface area as you can, the more the load is spread out, the better.

With pressure on the jig, I gently tapped around the whole thing with a rubber mallet, just helping the sheetmetal form around the mandrel a little more.  At this point, I decided that it was as pressed as it was going to be.  The flat and mandrel were pressed tight against the bottom jig and there was no where left to go. 


Since the whole point of all of this was to try to keep the bend straight and even, and keep the receiver shaped properly, how'd we do?  I'd say pretty good...

After taking the bolts out, I had to use a rubber mallet to get everything apart, and I had to hammer the mandrel out of the receiver.  I got a slight wave in the sheetmetal above the ejection port, but that's mostly due to my putting the cutout in the wrong place on the jig.  It's also much more noticeable here than it is in real life.  Look Ma, I made a gun! (from a legal standpoint anyway)


It turns out that the lower jig is also great for holding things while you're welding too.  I put my recovered G3 stock attachment weldment in the back of the receiver, used a piece of copper tubing as a backer for the front portion, clamped on a whole lot of Vice Grips, and welded it all up.  


Even though it should be Tigged to be correct, I Mig welded everything because that's what I have at the moment.  I've spent a whole lot of time doing sheetmetal work on cars, so welding up a receiver this thick was no problem.  The welds weren't factory Tig pretty, so I ground them all down and this is what I ended up with:

The true test of a CETME/HK folded flat is the bolt drop test.  Basically, you drop the bolt carrier through the receiver and it should freely drop through with no interference or drag.  I checked it after every step along the way.  So how'd I do?   Fresh off the jig: Perfect.  Tack welded: Perfect.  Fully welded: Perfect.  As best as I can tell, this receiver is as close to perfectly shaped as a home build can get.

And what of our jig, how did it hold up?  Pretty good. One of the add on end pieces I superglued on the mandrel came off, but it was a glue failure, not a print failure(the files I'll post will have that as one piece).  The lower just has a few scrapes in it, and a mushed spot where the ejection port flares out and that's about it, no other damage(and I'll fix the ejection port cutout in the file before I post it).  This thing worked so well that it could probably be done in a bench vice or with C-clamps, if you have some big enough, or possibly even by using 1/4" All Thread and some nuts to pull the two parts together with C-clamps for the middle.  Total cost for this jig was around $20 in filament, and about 3 days of print time.


If you want to make one for yourself, you can find my STLs here:

 https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4614385

 

 

 

66 comments:

  1. Hey Hey...trying to reach out to you on Thingiverse. I have a couple questions on this design.

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  2. Is this applicable to the CETME L model? Thanks.

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    1. I'm not sure, but probably not. Unlike most flats that are just variations of the CETME C/HK G3 design, the L is a completely different design, and even the commercially available "universal" jigs won't bend an L.

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    2. Weirdly enough I've found the model L jigs to be cheaper and actually available online.

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  3. Would you be willing to produce a set at a cost? I don't have access to a 3D printer and finding these bending jigs isn't easy

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    1. I'm not at a point where I can print these to sell, but when I do, I'll be sure to post about it. There are services like Shapeways available that will print things, but I don't know how their pricing is.

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  4. Are you using Cura to do your print or?

    Also, I'm using a Anycubic Mega I3. But I have the .1 nozzle. So do I need the .4 nozzle?

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    1. Yes, I use Cura. In my opinion it is the best slicer on the market.
      You might be able to use a .1 nozzle, but it would take a really, really long time to print. Proper settings with a .4 will give you a stronger print too.

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  5. What 3d printer did you use for this? I'm looking to get one (didn't realize how cheap they were now).

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    1. I'm using a Wanhao i3. There are even cheaper options on the market now though, like the Ender 3.

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    2. After some reading and watching, I ended up with the Sovol SV1. About how much filament would you say you used in printing these components, and how long did it take?

      Thanks for coming up with this. I built a jig out of steel parts but don't have the means of milling the mandrel. Your solution looks to be perfect!

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    3. Using the settings outlined in the post, I think I used a little over a spool of filament. IIRC, I think each of the four sections took 16-ish hours to print. The Gyroid infill pattern, while strong, is slower to print than other patterns.

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    4. The 1/2" dowel holes in the mandrel seem a tad undersized. Did you have to chase them with a drill or reamer? What size dowel is intended to go into the two holes in the jig? It appears a bit smaller while it's printing, although I haven't measured it yet.

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    5. How did you generate supports for the front portion of the jig? I screwed up the first time but not having supports, but now I'm inspecting it in Cura and having trouble. It seems that no matter what settings I choose, the generated supports that span the ejection port opening will not be adequate for the sharp 90-degree ledge at the end of it.

      What settings would you recommend for this in Cura?

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    6. The holes are sized for 1/2" dowels, and you will probably need to chase them with a 1/2" drill bit. I've not had any problem with getting it to generate supports for the ejection port cutout. Since it's not all that critical as long as there are some supports there it should be good enough. Here's a screenshot of the settings I use, because I can't post pics in comments you'll have to copy/paste into your browser address bar: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DPsa8DSC9VE/X-JIfS7GJPI/AAAAAAAACbQ/EyPNXBOXDAU52-AuePvtm-vuvxlq97cPACLcBGAsYHQ/s850/Supports.JPG

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    7. Thanks! I'll give that a try.

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    8. Man, mine doesn't look like yours at all. All I'm managing to get is more clutter everywhere but underneath that cliff. I've followed your settings exactly, and it still wants to start the next layer in thin air. What version of Cura are you using? I'm on the latest 4.8.

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    9. I figured it out! I had to change "Support Distance Priority" from "Z overrides X/Y" to "X/Y overrides Z". Now that little notch has full vertical support AND I don't have the unnecessary support towers on either side.

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    10. I spoke too soon. Once I turned the model, I saw that only half of that gap had been supported: https://i.imgur.com/F730fPX.png

      I upped the support density from your 6% to 50% and I got something that looks like it'll hold: https://i.imgur.com/d3U0slJ.png

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    11. Also, how did you manage to get your top layer to show up entirely in yellow? Mine still has the 8-layer thick walls showing up, unlike yours which appears to have only 1 or 2 layers of walls in the top.

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    12. Cura calculates where to put the support lines based on the build plate, not the model. If you move the model around on the bed, it will change where the support lines are on the model. It's especially noticeable when using low support density.

      In the pic I posted earlier I just quickly sliced the model using the wall settings I was using yesterday, so it only shows 3 walls on the top layer instead of the recommended 8.

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  6. Upon re-reading your post it seems that the holes in the jig are also intended for 1/2" dowels.

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  7. I'm a licensed manufacturer (07/02) from PA. Need inner and outer jigs made exactly like this but for MP44 flats. Would you be willing to help? I'd pay for your time of course. My email is wartrophies at hotmail.com Thanks

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    1. I'm not at a point where I've able to do something like that. You may be able to find someone at www.WeaponsGuild.com that might be able to help get something made. If it folds like an HK/CETME, there are a number of non-printed designs available too that you may be able to adapt.

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  8. Do you have any idea what scale percentage the center mandrel should be printed at to act as a straighting jig? My bend came out almost perfect with your jig, however I have a slight twist.

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    1. Because of the way it's designed, the mandrel cannot be scaled in a way to work as a straightening jig on it's own. That's what the filler pieces are for. The mandrel with the filler pieces installed works as a straightening mandrel that can be hammered through the bent flat.

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  9. Would it be possible for you to make the mandrel for the Mp5 length?

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    1. Nope, I don't have an MP5 to take measurements from. The biggest differences though are the ejection port location and guide pin location. You could add those in after printing it. You could also figure out what length you need and sink the models below the print bed so that they end up the right length.

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  10. Hi Jeff, Do you only use two of the 6-1/2" filler pieces? One per side or do you print more to fill to the back of the ribs? Thanks for sharing this!

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    1. Print 4 of them. The whole length of the mandrel needs to be made thicker in order to make sure that the flat folds properly. Without them, it can bend the sides too narrow and you won't have good bolt drop.

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  11. jeff! great idea! do you think i could do this on a ender 3? and as i know nothing about 3d printing, would this be difficult for a beginer?

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    1. It works well on Ender 3s, my printer is the same size as the Ender 3, so it's made to fit. It's an easy print too with minimal support needed. Printing overall isn't hard, but there is a learning curve when you're starting out. The Ender is nice because there is a lot of community support on Facebook and the like, and plenty of How To's on Youtube.

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  12. I really appreciate you making this. Going to try to bend my flat soon but what about the next steps of your build? (Barrel alignment with trunnion and rear sight and cocking tube etc...) Cheers again for this

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    1. The rest of this build can be found under the PSG-None tag.
      https://jeffstoybox.blogspot.com/search/label/PSG-None

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  13. I notice the the mandrel in the last picture has a flat top and the stk on thingiverse.com it round. Which is the correct way?

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    1. I'm not sure what you mean? Both the mandrel shown here and the mandrel on Thingiverse have flat tops, it's the same design.

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  14. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  15. My apologies. I messed up, I misunderstood what side I was looking at. Thank you for your help and response.

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  16. hi, did you print the file as-is on thingiverse or scale to account for shrinkage?
    thank you for posting this, building my first gun rn

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    1. It gets printed as is. PLA+ doesn't shrink enough to matter.

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    2. thanks, your posts are a great help

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  17. I just attempted this using a 12 ton press and instaed of aluminium to spread put the force. I used wood, and it ended up terribly. I dont know if it was the wood or my print or what, but as I started to press the jig, even after just a little bending, I heard squicks and eventually little cracks. I thought it was the metal slidding on the plastic, but I noticed that the wood I was using was pressing into the plastic, so I got a larger peice of wood to cover more surface area and gained some progress. Then the same thing happened. I was pretty miffed at this point a and tryed finushing it off with clamps, which of course didn't work, so now I'm left with a broken jig and half bent reciever that isn't bent equally somehow(I think the jig warped) and even looks to be curved slightly. I was woundering if I could fix this or figure out how to do it right. I matched all the settings I could with what you recommend. I was using Cur printed all of the parts at the same time using PLA+ from ebay (linked at the bottom). I not exactly sure what the main cause was, but I would really love to finish this project.

    Camron,

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUNLU-3D-Printer-Filament-PLA-PETG-SILK-WOOD-Silk-1-75mm-Spool-Wholesale-1-2Roll-/133764969052?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

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    1. It sounds like your printer isn't getting good layer adhesion, you'll have to run through the troubleshooting steps to get it printing properly. Once it is printed on a well tuned printer, after the flat is bent the print is strong enough that you can use the mandrel portion with the filler pieces as a straightening mandrel and hammer it through the receiver to straighten out any lopsidedness.

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  18. What length are the 1/4" bolts you use for the jig?

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    1. 3.5" I believe. The length isn't super critical as long as the are long enough to go through the flat and still have good thread engagement in the jig. They also don't have to be Allen heads, regular bolts will work fine.

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  19. Hi and thanks for your support here. I'm brand new to 3D printing and Cura. In your description of the Cura setting you use the term "8 walls" - what specific Cura setting parameter does that term refer to?
    Is it Wall Line Count?

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  20. Very nicely done! Would you be able to provide the STP files or another CAD type file for these parts? I would like to combine the filler pieces with the mandrel so I don't have to print them separate. I would be willing to share the STL files and some pictures after I combine them.

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    1. The filler pieces must be separate. If they are merged with the mandrel then the rails on the flat will hit the mandrel and bind before it's completely bent, leading to a broken mandrel or a flat bent very out of shape. That's why they don't get installed until the flat is most of the way bent.

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  21. Thanks for the explanation! Printing as we speak.

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  22. Hi Jeff, Are you able to print these for others yet? Do you know any one else who can? I would love to try this jig!

    Also Jeff

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    1. I'm still not at a point where I can print these to sell, but when I do I'll be sure to post about it. For now there are services like Shapeways available that will print things, but I don't know what their pricing is like.

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  23. hello, please tell me the dimensions of the hk g3 receiver. I will be grateful))))

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    1. If you google "HK G3 Receiver Dimensions" several sources will pop up. There are even a few factory blueprints floating around various forums.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. Sorry, but I googled a lot and didn't find anything detailed, I even searched on the HKpro forum.... Can you at least tell the length, height and diameter of the semicircular parts from your receiver. This will be enough for me, please.

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    4. Here's a link to a complete MP5 receiver print. The shape of the receiver is the same as the G3/CETME, the only difference is the length. Hopefully this information will be used to support Ukraine's efforts to drive out their Russian invaders.
      https://imgur.com/aNFG0Dk

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  24. Does this jig work for a CETME model C or L?

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    1. This is for the C. I don't know of anyone who makes an L jig.

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  25. I'm having trouble printing the filler pieces. Im printing vertical as the stl shows but they keep falling over and/ curving. How do you recommend printing them?

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    1. Printing vertical is the way to go. Print them one at a time to minimize travel moves. Use a lot of brim so they stick to the bed well. If you're having trouble with them getting knocked over you'll probably have to slow the print speed way down. If you still can't get it, you can use more short sections instead of a few long ones, it'll still work the same.

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  26. I printed one of these and it came out very nice. If anyone wants the prints done (with Jeff's blessing) I'd be happy to crank them out for a nominal fee to cover cost of materials/electricity/etc. swanboy@protonmail.com

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  27. Hey Jeff, I'm trying to print one of these on my Elegoo Neptune 2s, but something about your settings for strength/good layer adhesion really don't sit right with my printer. I'm getting horrible adhesion to the board, with the PLA sticking to the nozzle while it moves and very rough distribution of PLA. Also, the feed system's rollers click while trying to push PLA through. This is one of my first 3D printing experiences, especially one moving away from "standard" print settings in Cura. Any ideas? I tried to use the jig with "standard" settings and it cracked like an egg after the first 3 pumps, so any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

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    1. It sounds like you're trying to print much too cold. If you haven't printed a temperature tower to see what your printer and filament likes, I highly suggest you do it, there are a bunch of how-to's on Google. I'd also recommend watching everything that CNC Kitchen has on Youtube and working on your print quality before trying to print more gun stuff.

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